Jep, @Sandy: nothing wrong with starting in the gym. The question is: are you willing to take in the mountains completely or just restrict yourself to the bolted routes. Glad you didn’t hurt yourself on the fall!

@Panda: yeah, common sense can take you a long way. Your case with those people on the holiday – that sounds extreme, holy sh*t. Climbing with such people… I’m glad you’re still with us

@Dan, I don’t worry so much about definitions on who’s a climber, who’s a mountaineer etc. The point we all agree on here is that you owe it to yourself, your pals, mother nature and the “spirit of the mountains” or call it whatever you may, that you engage yourself with the mountain a lot more than just clipping bolts and heading home when you’re done.

@Technex, I’m jealous of your summers in the Swiss Alps

I spent 4 years living and playing near the Swiss/French Alps. I have spent many more hiking around the U.S. I love the outdoors, love hiking, love climbing (which I recently took up 2 years ago) but I am petrified of the down climb. If I am hiking downhill on loose ground (especially popular in the Vegas area) my legs start shaking, I lose all common sense (hense why I ran into a cactus last weekend), and I am sure I look like a novice. For whatever reason, this does not happen on more solid dirt – maybe because I grew up in the Midwest?

Anyway, I realize there are plenty of climbers who don’t respect the outdoors and and started in indoor gyms and have no hiking experience … just be careful who you judge.

I agree with ‘Panda’ (in fact i agree with every single point), i went sport climbing with some friends one weekend last summer, and one of the tag-alongs was an instructor. so I happily trusted him to belay me up a climb that wasnt too far outside my remit, I fell on the last clip, not even trying to clip it, aand fell the whole face of the climb. It turned out, he was an instructor who had NEVER climbed outdoors before, and never experienced somebody falliung properly, so he hadnt braced and had been hoisted up off balance.

Theres NOTHING wrong with having started climbing indoors, if that where you had the oppotunity, but I also think you have a duty to the others around you (and most certainly to the mountain rescue teams) to learn how to survive in the surroundings you will be climbing in. Not enough people bother to learn any self-rescue techniques before happily running off to go climb.

Sorry this ended up rambling a bit.

I spent a week on what was meant to be a fun sports climbing holiday with people who all consider themselves to be competent climbers.

I was so scared by what I saw them do that I spent the week instructing instead and only got two routes climbed myself (and this was with a different mate who was out for just one day before they turned up!).

These are young people who are training to be climbing instructors, climb indoors and outdoors (sport & trad) in the UK regularly and yet …

1) They didn’t seem to have any concept of the impact their actions could have when it came to their own safety or that of those around them. So untying at the top of a sports route without being clipped into anything, sticking fingers in belay plates as they were belaying, after re-threading just throwing themselves off the route without checking that their partner had them on belay, taking both hands off the rope when belaying … there was more too, but it’s too scary to think about!

2) The idea that you leave no trace was alien to them. It was fine to just leave rubbish behind them.

3) Maps and guidebooks were alien to them. When asked to navigate into/off a crag or choose/find a route they just looked dumbly at me. We’re not talking old, dodgy CC guides or obscure French guides, but a very modern photo guidebook in English with very clear walk-in instructions for these roadside crags.

4) Not bringing water/ first-aid kits / sunscreen out to a sunny crag.

You may not need to be a mountaineer to be a climber (I don’t consider myself a mountaineer as I’m not an Alpinist) but you do need to have your head screwed on.

I do agree that there is a potential for danger when people get into climbing without developing the necessary outdoor skills, and proper respect for the danger involved. Gym climbing puts too much focus on ability, and very little on knowledge. It can lead to a cavalier attitude towards basic safety precautions, and accidents like this one:

http://thegoat.backcountry.com/2009/04/15/ice-climber-falls-72-feet-off-top-rope-and-goes-on-good-morning-america-two-weeks-later/

I got into climbing as a result of my love for the hiking, backpacking, and the outdoors in general. But I am a beginner, and know my limitations. Regardless, I always try to bring a certain level of respect for my environment – a respect for the inherent danger of climbing, and a respect for the natural places we, as outdoor enthusiasts, must protect.

I’ve never encountered these sport climbers who can’t hike, mostly because I’ve only climbed outside once. But I have definitely encountered people who venture outside unprepared, and without the words “leave no trace” in their vocabulary, both of which make me sad.

More and more nowadays I see people poorly equipped for their excursions and struggling on walk-ins to crags that are anything more difficult than a prepared path. They are usually the same people who later drop the litter that I end up cleaning up at the end of the day.

It’s very sad to see people without the skills or experience endangering themselves and others and without the respect for nature and the mountains to enjoy their sport safely and responsibly so people can continue to enjoy it in future.